The Pink Elephant in the Room
There is a pink elephant in the room that no one seems to want to discuss. I don't want really want to discuss it myself; but it is, after all, a pink elephant.
To paraphrase the late Mel Allen, "the elephant" is the fact that white people are going, going and apparently nearly gone from the Seventh-day Adventist Church. This is as tragic to witness as it is to admit; but that we are witnessing this disappearance is, seemingly, undeniable.
Personally, I first noticed something a little strange as I visited Toronto ten years ago on the second weekend of the 57th General Conference. It looked somewhat similar to a Northeastern Conference camp meeting as we approached the dome. Since this was however a General Conference of the world church, the question occurred to me, "where are the white people?"
My immediate thought was that they were in the dome. Once in the dome, I concluded that, instead of milling around socializing, the white people were where we all were supposed to be, in their seats. I really didn't give it much thought after that, other than to think that perhaps Caucasians generally have enough disposable income not have to center their vacation plans exclusively around General Conference and/or camp meeting; unlike most black members in North America.
In St. Louis in 2005 I frankly didn't give it much thought at all, as I recall. We were only there for one of the Sabbaths, and I have had trouble recalling which one. Obviously, I was not in my seat.
Actually in retrospect, I now recall seeing a photograph taken back in 1990--from the steps of the then-Hoosier Dome in Indianapolis--of hundreds of people leaving the facility following the Sabbath services at the 55th General Conference that seemed to have nearly all "people of color" in it.
Again during this past 59th Session, we simply couldn't help but notice that there just weren't very many white people there, especially in relationship to the various people of color; be they brown, yellow, black or...whatever.
I confess that we didn't attend services at the Georgia Dome, except for The Parade of Nations finale. (I took a relatively brief tour of the exhibit gallery on the last Friday of the session, when I met Adventist Today executive publisher Ervin Taylor at the Adventist Today booth.) Something about The Parade of Nations however seriously got my attention. Before introducing the nations, the SDA membership of the various Divisions of the General Conference were announced in round numbers. Upon hearing that the North American Division had about one million SDA's, whereas the Inter-American Division had about 3 million, I was startled.
The North American Division basically consists of the United States, Canada, and Bermuda. About 30 years ago, I specifically recall hearing that the membership of the Regional Conferences in North America was around 100,000--again, that was 30 years ago. So, then the wheels, or whatever it is I have in my head, started turning. If there are only one million Adventists in North America today, and that includes the country of Canada, and there were 100,000 Adventists in the predominantly non-white Regional Conferences some 30 years ago, and if I haven't seen many whites at the North American hosted General Conferences over the course of the past 20 years or so; perhaps we have the makings of a crisis in the United States; much like the one I have heard for a generation has existed in Europe. That is to say, that the Adventist church is dying--among white people.
To further investigate, I visited the Office for Regional Conference Ministry on the campus of Oakwood University upon my return to Huntsville, AL. I asked for some information relative to the current membership of the Regional Conferences, to assess where it stood in comparison to what I had heard 30 years ago. The figures that were shared with me revealed that, as of 2009, there were over 263,000 members of the overwhelmingly non-white Regional Conferences. It was further shared that the African American/Caribbean/African membership of the non-regional conferences throughout the North American Division is conservatively estimated to be at least 60,000. (Whether this includes those of African descent from the Pacific Union or not was never clarified.) This would mean that throughout the United States and Canada, there are perhaps as few as 700,000 Seventh-day Adventists of European descent. In consideration that there are about 60,000 SDA's in the Canada, SDA Church Inc., and nearly half of those are in the Ontario Conference, which has a considerable membership of African-Caribbean and/or Asian descent, and in further consideration of the fact that the 3,700-member Bermuda Conference is included in the North American Division, the approximately 700,000 estimate shrinks even further--not to mention the many non-white members throughout the state conferences who are not of African descent; meaning Hispanics, Asians, etc..
The anecdotal evidence suggests an even bleaker picture. I have previously lived in what has to be considered among the most typical metropolitan areas in the United States; the greater Indianapolis area. The largest church in the Indiana Conference in central Indiana is the Glendale SDA Church in Indianapolis. It is comprised of a significant minority membership. (There are a couple of much smaller Indiana Conference suburban churches in the area, and of course the Indiana Academy and the Indiana Conference Office are both located in the county immediately north of Indianapolis; thankfully boosting the numbers of white members in central Indiana considerably.) There are, on the other hand, no less than five churches of the Lake Region Conference within Marion County (Indianapolis), where the combined numbers of white members can regrettably perhaps be counted on one hand. This is anecdotal for sure, but it is scary and sad, to me, nonetheless.
In any case, bear in mind once more that in the largely brown and black Inter-American Division, there are 3 million Adventists. We're talking essentially The Caribbean Islands, Mexico, Central America, and northern most South America (Colombia, Venezuela, and Guyana) with a total population of approximately 270 million.The North American Division, essentially the U.S., Canada, and Bermuda, with a total population of well over 340 million, has less 700,000 white Seventh-day Adventists, probably closer to 600,000.
Why is this so and what should be done? I have some thoughts, as you might imagine. What are yours?
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![]() | Stephen Foster | Stephen Foster is a free lance writer and recently retired advertising executive from AT&T for whom he worked in the Midwest for over 21 years. He has a degree in History from Oakwood University in Huntsville, AL, with graduate work in communications, journalism and religion at Andrews University. Stephen has written on current and public affairs and has served the local church for many years as a Public Affairs and Religious Liberty leader. He is currently a lay member of the North American Division Committee. Stephen has been married for 30 years. He and his wife have two adult daughters and four grandchildren. He writes from Huntsville, AL. He is also a fourth-generation Seventh-day Adventist, and a native New Yorker (Yaw-ka). |


Comments
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
"the Adventist church is dying-among white people."
Where have you been during the last quarter century? This is not a sudden occurrence, although maybe suddenly realized. It is demonstrated in the third world countries, largely composed of non-Caucasian peoples, where religions of all kinds are growing. Islam, Pentecostals, are probably the fastest growing groups found in these areas.
The same type of evangelism that attracted North Americans 50-100 years ago is totally ineffective today, but the method has changed little, if any. The decrease in Europe which has been occurring for possibly 100 years has been a litmus test for NAD.
There is probably no one correct answer, but common to both NAD and Europe, including Australia, is the eudcational level which is different compared to the fast-growing Adventists in the rest of the world. Unless specific marketing techniques are used for each group rather than "one-size-fits-all" the Caucasian members will continue to die off without replacement.
One question all Cacuasian members should be aksed: How many of your friends would you be happy to invite: to your church for Sat. morning; to a typical Revelation Seminar? If asked, how many would respond positively?
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
Australia is going the same way. There are some white churches that are not ethnic but are still growing, but there aren't many of them. Even the European churches that were established by immigrants after WWII (Polish, Yugoslav, etc) and grew quickly up to the '80's are finding it hard to retain their youth. The real growth is coming from recent immigrants. Without them, the church in Australia would be showing a serious decline in numbers.
The problem is wider than just the European churches, though. In areas of the South Pacific where the SDA church has been established for 3 or 4 generations, they also are losing the majority of their youth. We can still cover that by the increase in new areas, but there aren't that many new areas left.
The problem we should be working on is not just why white people are leaving the church in greater numbers than they are coming in, but why, across the board, we cannot hold people past the second generation. If we could just increase the retention of our youth to 50% we would see enormous growth in some areas. That is a need in all groups, whatever their colour (or combination of colours - we don't all fit neatly into a black and white world).
Kevin
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
Australia is going the same way. There are some white churches that are not ethnic but are still growing, but there aren't many of them. Even the European churches that were established by immigrants after WWII (Polish, Yugoslav, etc) and grew quickly up to the '80's are finding it hard to retain their youth. The real growth is coming from recent immigrants. Without them, the church in Australia would be showing a serious decline in numbers.
The problem is wider than just the European churches, though. In areas of the South Pacific where the SDA church has been established for 3 or 4 generations, they also are losing the majority of their youth. We can still cover that by the increase in new areas, but there aren't that many new areas left.
The problem we should be working on is not just why white people are leaving the church in greater numbers than they are coming in, but why, across the board, we cannot hold people past the second generation. If we could just increase the retention of our youth to 50% we would see enormous growth in some areas. That is a need in all groups, whatever their colour (or combination of colours - we don't all fit neatly into a black and white world).
Kevin
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
1. The white population in the U.S. is declining generally. This is because whites are older. We are older because they have a lower birth rate. We have a lower birth rate because we live longer (better health care) and thus get older. Latino immigration into the church and Blacks from the Carribean also shrink the white percentage, which tends not to grow. Whites are more secular and less religious because they have more money and more options. Options as in different social clubs and organization while non- whites USE the church as a place of networking, resources and solidarity. Something as we whites don't need as often. So, that's my take on the decline in white membership. What say you?
Also, if history and natural behavior is at work here I will go out on a limb as well that there is some level of white flight in the denomination. SDA primarily started out as a white denomination thus if natural behavior is at play here, we claimed ownership of this denomination. Now because of the overwhelming dominance of people of color in the denomination whites just like anything else leaves the neighborhood. Again, I went out on a limb here but I think there is some truth to it.
Tony
WWW.ONENESSMINISTRIES.ORG
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
I strugled witht he same problem for many years.
Recently I picked up a book titled "Rule By Secrecy" by Jim Marrs.
According to his book, secularism, technology, entertainement in music and videos, liberalism and acceptance of extreme liberal views, eliminating the need for moral values, multiculturism, all of which are promoted by all forms of media, and not by chance, but by design of the "bankers" namely the Rotschilds. Morgans, Rockerfellers, and others. These people and their secret societies control all forms of mass communication.
This power of mass communication is used to attack moral vlues, mostly in English speaking countries and or western society, which in turn is now a huge influence or a model in many Asian countries. The biggest attack is in structured family life, of parents and children, etc to the point where the white race (Europena descent) is dying at a rapid pace, and wealthy Adventists more so are loosign their children to the mentioned influences disregarding Adventiust teaching.
Liberal teachings of modern Evangelical Christians, who are highly influenced by extreme liberals, is overflowing to many Adventist churches as well. Thus children of 2nd and 3rd generation Adventists see our church as less relevant to 21st century, less acceptable to the new thinking, and therefore less time gets allocated for spiritual values, which in turn starts a downward spiral in accepting Biblical values.
This is clearly seen in removal of "The Ten Commandments" from many public institutions, all in the name of equality for all peoples and removal not to offend the Muslim element in our society. The Commandments of God only offend non-believers.
In conclusion, our church needs to stay true to Biblical principles 100% without modern day intervention. When we stand firm and true, those who find we have a backbone, will come and join and stand with us. By bending over to accomodate all fringes of society according to liberal values we are no different then the ones to whom we wish to witness. We sinply can not offer a different flavor ice cream. God does not change His principles to accomodate 21st century thinkers.
If you can afford the book, "Rule By Secrecy" buy it! It will explain much of what we dont understand of why and how..
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
If this is a surprise to you you simply haven't been looking. The "elevator model" for sociology of Adventism outlined in Seeking a Sanctuary does a nice job of explaining the trend, in my opinion. And yes, socioeconomic status and education play a large role in that model.
I think your 700,000 is way conservative, even with your downward adjustments, due to your black focus. You only briefly mention hispanics and asians, but they play a huge role in the non-regional churches. Here in the Texas Conference, English-speaking churches are only around 50% of the membership now, the balance being primarily Spanish-speaking but also a mix of Portugese (Brazilian), Korean, Chinese, etc. Of the English-speaking churches, I don't think data exist on ethnicity, but most English-speaking churches I've visited have had a large number of island Blacks, Africans, Filipinos, multigenerational hispanics, etc., probably over 50% of the congregational membership. I suspect you'd find similar mixes in Arizona, New Mexico, California, and many other states. On the other hand, smaller conferences in the plains states may still have mostly Whites (I don't know, having only visited a couple). I would guess the real number is probably in the 3-400,000 range.
I know Monte Sahlin has studied this issue in an urban context for some time; it would be interesting if you and he could blog together on this question. But in major metro areas across NAD--including Indianapolis according to your description--white SDAs are almost non-existent. Houston has no English-speaking Texas Conference church inside Beltway 8 not counting one literally facing the highway from the inside. And for those that don't know, Beltway 8 is the OUTER loop around Houston. There are none inside Loop 610 (the INNER loop) for sure. Regional conference churches do exist in this area, as do Texas Conference hispanic churches. But the "white" churches, including Houston "Central" Church, have all moved to the suburbs, and aren't "white" anymore anyway. It isn't as if white people don't live inside Beltway 8. There has been a huge reverse flow of educated professionals and whites to the city over the past decade, with zillions of condos and high-rise apartments being built, but the SDA presence in that "people group" is negligible.
On the other hand, Lakewood Church, one of the largest mega churches around, sits inside IH610 and is attended by tens of thousands. It isn't as if these people aren't interested in spiritual things or Christianity even. There are plenty of other big churches inside the city as well.
I think Adventist provincialism and narrow sectarian views are not compatible with cosmopolitan, educated city folk. Why that might be less true for blacks than whites I can't say, but maybe it isn't. I know among hispanics, at least, the second and third generation immigrant kids are leaving just as the white kids left. It is a topic of concern among hispanic SDAs.
I think the message has to be relevant to the people. Perhaps by being so successful in missions, Adventism has now reached a point where the power of members in developing countries keeps the church "stuck" in a state that is increasingly irrelevant and even repugnant to educated westerners. Our new president will facilitate this process, along with the fundamentalists in the USA (and yes, those include many whites, interestingly enough!).
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
The level of education today is years higher than when Adventism was born: Perhaps now at least 8 more years of higher education is becoming the norm.
What attracted the attention of those early members was: certainty of Jesus' coming (even in 1843-44); the emphasis on obedience to "all" the Ten Commandments with most concern on the Fourth, contrasted with all the other churches who were NOT keeping the commandments; and the live-in prophet who decided what the church would believe and pronounced her imprimatur on doctrines.
What appealed to new members then is far from appealing today as must be recognized. No longer are people looking for a church that claims to have the "truth" as they live in a highly advertised society where every new product is claimed to be the "best" and solves all problems. Something outside the usual attraction of decoding Daniel and Revelation (most could care less about "who" and what the books of the Bible have to say) and are looking for something to escape from more problems. Which is why retreats of all kind are seen as welcome: yoga, spiritual, prayer, couples therapy and more are finding those eager to sign up.
When the familiar, old way of evangelizing isn't working, the solution is not to pour more money into a broken system, but devise an entirely new system. In addition, the "unique" doctrines of a church mean nothing to people today as every new product claims to be unique and is often a turn-off. They do not care to know about coming catastrophes when they are surrounded by them: unemployment rising; how will my family survive with no money, home, or car; not to mention food. These are far more important concerns than a new form of religion that requires no work one day when many workers are needed for that day and how can I refuse to work when needed to support myself and family?
Until the church ceases answering questions no one is asking, and reaches out to those anxiously searching for some security, they are in a "past-due date."
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
We need to have a calm and reasoned conversation on this topic that will not degenerate into accusations and counter accusations of racism. The previous comments reiterate the reality that White Adventists are an ever decreasing demographic group within the church. This should be of concern to all Adventist regardless of race.
In Britain and France the immigrants and ethnic minorities are now the SDA majority and hold the positions of administration. The net result is that the membership continues to grow but it becomes less and less relevant and attractive to the dominant culture. At most it becomes a cultural anomaly which draws some curiosity but little else. Adventists then risk being seen in the same light as the muslim minorities throughout Europe.
This is what is now happening in the US. Its already happened in the metro New York area where the non-regional Greater New York Conference has a large minority majority membership (Hispanic, Caribbean, Haitian, Asian, Black) and a small caucasian minority. The regional Northeastern has almost twice the membership in the metro area with a tiny caucasian presence. Other metropolitan areas including Boston, Washington DC, Miami and Atlanta reflect the same tred
Glance through union news magazines and you will realize that a large number of pastors being ordained in "state" conferences are Black and Hispanic. (e.g. recent Southern Tidings reports six pastors ordained in FLA Conf. none white anglo).
Those calling for the abolishing of regional conferences fail to realize that this could result in unintended consquences including the acceleration of white flight from the diminishing anglo membership which some put as low as 300,000 to 400,000. Blending the 269,000 regional membership to the former could prove counter productive.
In the New Testament we find that Paul specialized in evangelizing gentiles while Peter concentrated on Jews.
We don't need to scrap traditional evangelism, as some suggest, because it is still bringing in souls. The only problem is that is does not appeal to certain social classes and demographic groups. What we do need is to develop new approaches which will reach these groups without abandoning the former. As the fishers of men that we are called to be we can use different bait for different fish.
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
The fact of the matter is that Christians as a percent of the population is going down. The mainline churches are hardly "provincial and sectarian" but they are losing members like a seive. Some Adventists seem to think we have to change our message to be successful. At that point, we should just disban and join the "successful" churches.
As a whilte pastor with a multi-cultural church, I say let us embrace our multi-culturalism. It is true that more brown people respond to our traditional evangelism, but so what? I've baptized more than my share of white people. One of the things that sets us apart from the lilly-white congregatonal churches is our multi-culturalsim. (Yes, yes, I know that is an exageration, but not much.)
Jesus predicted a "falling away" before he returned. Shall he find faith on earth?
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
Unfortunately, you have your facts wrong, and listening to conspiracy theories won't help.
The Episcopal church is losing membership rapidly and is only a shell of what it once was. It has also splintered recently over social issues.
All mainline churches are shrinking. Among whites, Buddhism and Eastern religions are growing. The only churches that are growing are congregational churches with a large staff and small doctrinal instrustion.
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
McCall,
Your head count may be diverse but I am interested to know what operating cultural that is manifested in your church. White hymn, Contemporary christian music, white liturgy etc. 9/10 out ten churches say they are diverse or multicultural but in reality they are as white as the lilly-white congregations your described because the operating culture, despite being a diverse church, remains white.
But hey, praise be to God if your the exception to the rule.
Tony Andrews
www.onenessministries.org
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
My response above about "conspiracy theories" was a response to tomjak, not the author of the ariticle.
I was not aquainted with the system here. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
"Oneness"
Since you have never visited our church, maybe you should: Canoga Park SDA.
Our "culture" is what the people make it. Every culture makes a contribution. Our head elder is African. Our music coordinator is Tongan. Our praise team is all young people. We have Hispanic and Filippino and women elders. Our white people (I am white) enthusiastically love our church.
We are culturally middle-of-the road Adventist. We hope what draws people is our very warm, accepting congregation and clear proclamation of the Bible---from an un-apologetically Adventist perspective.
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
Stephen,
What you do not take into account is the fact that some races and cultures can enjoy being lost in a sea of 65,000+ faces while others of us cannot.
I agree. It is completely necessary that 2,400 delegates and their assistants gather in Session every 5 years.
However it is not necessary that
A. Delegates rest in 5 star luxury.
B. They take their spouses and families on side trips afterward at the denominations expense.
C. They hold a side circus in a huge exhibition hall.
D. People arrive by the 10s of 1000's for Sabbath Celebrations, especially when excellent media coverage is provided.
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
Foster,
Once again, a great topic, and not only well documented support for your argument, there is just something to be said for a well written article, period. You have accomplished both here.
For some of the points I will raise, I will admit up front that some of my information is at least two decades old, established in the early to mid-eighties. Where facts are now a bit fuzzy, the spirit of my comments, I believe, are nonetheless still very much on point.
I recall, that maybe as early as the mid-1980s the beginning of the conversation on the contraction of Whites within the Adventist church was under way. The conversation was in relationship to the growth of the InterAmerican Division, the growth of the Black work in North America, and the dalliance with Black Unions here in the United States. At that time the exercise was in some ways, in fact, a racially tinged conversation, not totally out of step with what was becoming the passing social reality of the time, but also happening against the backdrop of Whites making up only some fifteen percent of the worldwide membership, yet holding almost all of the major leadership positions worldwide within the church.
A second conversation at the time had to do with the aging of White congregations by comparison with other race and ethnic groups, and a fear that the White church in America was speeding toward diminished membership levels that would be impossible to recover even over several generations. It was being observed even then, that MV or AY Socieites were disppearing among White churches; that one of the natural feeders of young people to the church, the church schools, were losing white students and being replaced by Blacks and other ethnic populations.
In the early 1990s, one of the Unions, I believe it was the Southern Union, commissioned a study called ValueGenesis. One element of the study looked at the relationship between Adventist School attendance and the likelihood of permanence with the Church, most likely by way of regular attendance and active involvement. The study revealed, that the more years a young person had with the Adventist School system, from kindergarten through college, the more likely they were to remain active members of the Adventist Church into their adult years. The reverse was also found to be true. What we have seen probably across the race spectrum, is that these outcomes impact all groups, not just Whites. What we cannot ignore though, in light of this topic, is that the flight of Whites from the natural feeder to the Churches, as their almost reflexive response to addressing their dilution in the schools, has to be viewed as a major contributing factor.
We have seen for years in the United States, that taking evangelism to the people has never been the preferred MO of White congregations. During the hey day of tent meetings in the Regional Conferences and store front evangelism to the neighborhoods, Whites were conducting meetings in their churches, entreating the public to come to them, as opposed to taking the message to the public. At a time when good old street corner preaching, was making centurions out of ethnic preachers in the space of a summer, Whites were largely counting on their own members to attend meetings in the comfort of their own churches. Occasionally, the Union evangelist would show for a Fall or Winter meeting, with an impressive multimedia-enhanced evangelism series, and this long before multimedia was universally in vogue among White, and certainly getting hardly a sniff among ethnic congregations. By comparison with nonWhites though, the baptisms, and the follow-up nurturing were simply not substantial enough to sustain the kind of growth as we were able to see among the ethnic populations.
So, this is a storm that has been a long time developing. It is an issue, not a problem, with a multi-layered answer. To the extent that any of what is now evident has been driven by race prejudice, if you feel no shame, then well you should. To the extent that any of what we see now is driven by irrelevant messaging and outdated modes of delivery, then I suggest we have a systemic problem that will eventually impact all race and ethnic groups in modern cultures resulting in negligible growth... period.
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
"The study revealed, that the more years a young person had with the Adventist School system, from kindergarten through college, the more likely they were to remain active members of the Adventist Church into their adult years."
This has been repeated ad nauseum but is a complete fallacy. I know many of my children's classmates from 40+ years ago who were once baptized into the SDA church. Few would be seen in a SDA church today. My two children, 16 years of SDA education, still are on the books, as are probably many of their classmates then and continuing. However, they regularly receive the monthly Review and the Union Recorder, indicating their names are still recorded as SDAs.
Which is why the statement has no meaning the way it is assumed: theoretically, they are still Adventists, although not "acitve" by any stretch of the imagination. They may attend at Christmas or Easter for special musical programs, which is the extent of their "membership."
Unless a member has asked for his membership to be removed, or has commited gross sins, he will always be a member, just as the Roman Catholics count their members: baptized as infant, always a Catholic.
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
I agree that estimating that there are 600,000 white SDAs in the NAD is very optimistic.
But not only is Adventism shrinking among whites, the white race is shrinking all over the world. The birthrate among whites in the US is around 1.77. For Europeans (as opposed to immigrants) in Europe, the fertility rates typically range from 1.7 to 1.1. The white race worldwide is committing demographic suicide by failure to reproduce at anything even remotely approaching replacement rates.
Whatever else that can be said with certainty, we can certainly say that the future history of the world will be less "white" than the past several centuries have been.
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
By 2050 it is estimated that the U.S. Caucasian population will be the minority and we all will be a lighter shade of tan.
Interracial breeding improves the strain, while inbreeding produces anomalies not always desired. The Amish have had many physical and mental problems due to their inbreeding.
In earlier times many children were needed to help with the farm; and because infant mortality was so high. Today, they are a financial burden to educate and so, wisely, parents choose to have only the children they can support. Those who do not choose wisely are the ones who produce more children.
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
The real elephant in the room is "white flight." Everyone dances around it, but the reality is that Adventist churches have become less white because whtie members disappear whenever black members begin attending their churches. I've seen it happen over and over again, first in New York and now in South Florida. My question is: where do they go? Are they at home watching services on 3ABN. They're certainly not in church on Sabbath morning.
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
Elaine, you're not only pro-choice, you're consistently anti-life. Has anyone ever thought how inconsistent this is with Christianity? I mean God created people in the first place; who are we to say He was wrong? Every person is created in the image of God, and the more the merrier!
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
All life should be considered valuable; which is why all children should be planned, wanted, loved, and cared for. Unmanaged and uncontrolled reproduction has nothing to do with the value of life but everything to do with life so valuable it should not be merely the result of unlimited progeny. The rabbits are very capable of that; humans were given a mind and free will to make choices.
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
Ella M
Stephen,
I just noticed your blog and thought I would comment. I think as someone else said the white population is decreasing. I don't have a problem with this nor the idea that the SDA Church is made up of so many different nationalities. I rejoice in that. I don't care what color my church is now or in the future, just so long as it continues to grow.
I am disturbed that the US conferences are separate which doesn't make a good witness. I would think twice or more before joining that kind of church.
But getting back to the reasons. As I have said before there is more materialism and a certain kind of anti-religious education in the countries where the white culture predominates. I am afraid this will continue as more people of color join them.
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
"White flight" is part of the answer in some places, but it isn't the whole answer. White churches - churches that never see anything but white faces - are also dying. I know that is true in Australia, and from what I hear it is also true in the US. There is also the fact that in areas where we have been established for a few generations among non-white groups, we are also losing our young people at similar rates to in the white churches. It may be obvious in places like the US and the UK that the white members make up a decreasing percentage of the church, but it may not be a racial issue. It may have more to do with the fact that we had our first converts among white people, and the decrease we see there is only one or two generations away in other groups. I still believe the main problem we face is one of keeping our members beyond the second and third generation, and that race is a incidental part of that because our success occurred first among the white groups. I would be very surprised if the Black conferences in America are not already seeing this problem, and it is only one or two generations (i.e. no more than about 30 years) away in other groups.
Kevin
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
The issue is not so much racial as it is cultural. Many Blacks in America, especially American born ones, have rejected white culture. They prefer a different type of music, a different type of sermon delivery, and perhaps a different emphasis in the message content. Many prefer a different type of food during the potluck. When people have different likes and dislikes, why should they be compelled to set those aside?
I might prefer Black church to White church. Better music, better sermon delivery? I'd rather eat watermelon and corn on the cob than cottage cheese roast anyday.
I live in a very racist society; however, the most divisive issues are cultural rather than ethnic. The Japanese are hated in Asia by other nations, not because of racial issues but because of cultural issues. Blaming misunderstanding on race is way too superficial.
Most Chinese men here smoke; consequently, I avoid them. Alcoholism is also an issue which I avoid. Some people might think I'm a racist; however, race has nothing to do with it. It's cultural. If you insist that I drink alcohol with you at a meal, I'm just as likely to leave the table whether you are White, Black, or Asian.
People's cultural preferences should be respected. If that requires separate congregations, no big deal, as long as people of other groups are welcome.
Of course, problems are going to arise if Whites feel displaced by migrant minorities. That's life. If people don't like it, they can go to the beach, mountains, etc., instead of church. Big world out there. If your spiritual life is so pathetic you "need" church, that's another issue.
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
Ella M
"To the extent that any of what we see now is driven by irrelevant messaging and outdated modes of delivery, then I suggest we have a systemic problem that will eventually impact all race and ethnic groups in modern cultures resulting in negligible growth... period. "
I think this is the major problem. Thank you for sharing your insight. It will take something catastophic for people to return to church or be influenced by this particular church. We are not the only Christians, so perhaps others will "discover" biblical truths on their own. God is in charge, and I think when the time comes all people will have the opportunity to choose between truth and error; love and hate; good and evil.
It doesn't make sense that the choice is between an organization and the whole world. It's strategically impossible to put everyone on the books of a particular denomination, yet that is what I am hearing in many sermons.
Concerning coming out of Babylon, I think we could be in Babylon as a church member. It may be a matter of attitude as there is nothing magical about the baptismal water.
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
Sometimes I think that the Adventist church has created the most expensive revolving door in the history of the Christian church. Because of our emphasis on education and our operation of a private educational system we take converts who come usually from the lower middle class and educate their children through college, and they work for the church. The next generation goes to graduate school and works both for the church and for many other entities and the next generation leaves. It is my understanding that today in the NAD most minority growth is from first generation immigrants and that other groups besides the whites are now having the same problem in holding on to their highly educated youth.
When I served on a conference personnel committee we learned not to place a pastor in a non English speaking church unless they could also speak reasonably good English because the young people learned English quickly and left churches that did not help them integrate into American society.Their parents might be nostalgic about the Adventism of their home country but for the kids this is home.
Church growth data says that people will join a church that they think is either at their socioeconomic/cultural level or above but they will not join one that they feel is below where they see themselves. I don't know that this is so much of a snob thing as it is that they join a church to help them deal with the everyday issues of life and so they want to be in a group that is dealing with the same issues that they are.
This revolving door was created as a totally unintended consequence of our commitment to education. The problem with unintended consequences is that we have to be very intentional in dealing with them. If we do not this one has the possibility of eventually bankrupting the church. On second thought that might solve the problem because then we couldn't afford to run all those schools.
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
I as an older Adventist, grew up in the church, went to Avondale, then Andrews and Loma Linda where I picked up a couple of Masters degrees, and came away with my commitment more focussed than ever. Since then, however, I have found it increasingly difficult to "hang in" there. Two reasons:
I have seen appalling breaches of integrity in the church administration. The Merikay Silver case, the Davenport affair, the Harris Pine Mills debacle, the Des Ford fiasco, along with personal incidents, have made it difficult to retain zeal and enthusiasm. There comes a time when corruption becomes corrosion.
Secondly, I would love to witness to some of my friends. A while back someone turned up at our local church and as we got chatting, I said "..... how would you like it if I came around and we read the Bible and I explain it to you?" He replied "I would love that." He is an Asian with a Buddhist background. But how can I try and be instrumental in bringing his lovely family into the Adventist church when there is the continued beating and clanging on peripheral drums that are unbiblical? To stress the non-gospel emphases that negate the very core of Christianity, as our leaders seem hell-bent on doing, breaks my heart. I would go to some other Sabbath-keeping church but from what I have discovered, others teach error even more than ours.
Re: The Pink Elephant in the Room
I as an older Adventist, grew up in the church, went to Avondale, then Andrews and Loma Linda where I picked up a couple of Masters degrees, and came away with my commitment more focussed than ever. Since then, however, I have found it increasingly difficult to "hang in" there. Two reasons:
I have seen appalling breaches of integrity in the church administration. The Merikay Silver case, the Davenport affair, the Harris Pine Mills debacle, the Des Ford fiasco, along with personal incidents, have made it difficult to retain zeal and enthusiasm. There comes a time when corruption becomes corrosion.
Secondly, I would love to witness to some of my friends. A while back someone turned up at our local church and as we got chatting, I said "..... how would you like it if I came around and we read the Bible and I explain it to you?" He replied "I would love that." He is an Asian with a Buddhist background. But how can I try and be instrumental in bringing his lovely family into the Adventist church when there is the continued beating and clanging on peripheral drums that are unbiblical? To stress the non-gospel emphases that negate the very core of Christianity, as our leaders seem hell-bent on doing, breaks my heart. I would go to some other Sabbath-keeping church but from what I have discovered, others teach error even more than ours.